While We Danced, Our Egun Sized Each Other Up!

Thu, May 8, 2008

Elders, Feature, Traditional Afrikan

While We Danced, Our Egun Sized Each Other Up!

Egun ( Ancestors ) set the standards for social interaction and ethics

(A Reply to a post on the Orisa Mailing List, circa ’98)

Egun Want us Listen:
While I was in college I took a course in South African history. Shortly after starting that class, Khoi spirits would come to me at night when I went to sleep, . They would come to me in tears and remind me that the words that I read in books about South African history were lies and a desecration of their culture. They also hinted to the true motives of Shaka; motives that will never be found in books. They reminded me to not sit by idly while their names and memories were forgotten or disrespected. Those months of powerful dreams were very moving and often resulted in incredible classroom clashes, and an outpouring of emotion. Or maybe it would be better described as conviction on my part. After all, Ancestral spirits were demanding that I speak on their behalf.

It seems appropriate that I remember that class when I read the post entitled- “One settler, One bullet.” This motto is one of the most powerful that I have ever heard, and having been shown a glimpse of the pain endured by South Africans (and in fact all Africans at the hands of European conquest), I understand why they would make such a strong statement and why some say Black South Africans say it even today!

Egun Interact on your Behalf

Something important to know about the Egun- There is a dialogue that goes on between the Egun (Ancestors) of two or more people when they meet for the first time. Devotees of traditional religions should explore this dynamic interaction between Egun.

When I first realized this, I was trying to share the experience with a friend. At the time, I was having headaches because I was trying to develop a relationship with a particular woman. I was being told (thru my intuition) that our Egun had meet, and didn’t care much for one another! It was plausible to me, but I had never had it happen directly thru my Ori (head) before. Normally, you get a consultation and the Ol’Orisa says “your Egun say this about so and so.” or you go to a Misa and a medium passes (gets possessed with their or your spiritual guide) and this kind of thing comes out. Having this direct communication made it very real for me. Later on, it was in fact confirmed through divination!


  • Folks seem to think that their Ancestors become very lofty and unaffected in the Other World. (i.e.We think things that might have concerned these Egun in life, do not bother them anymore or that there are no longer ethical issues for them in the Afterlife.)

I beg to differ. My experience has been that they keep their same ethical code from the sum total of their lives and lessons (even mistakes) learned-and this is how they deal with us. For example, why wouldn’t an Egun whose last life was marred by enslavement at the hands of Muslims or Christians remember this and ask his living family to avoid such people and their offspring? – At the very least, wouldn’t the ancestor tell the living relative to be careful with consorting with certain types?

Second Thought:

  • How logical is it for my Egun to interact with another Egun that might have been an adversary in a past life?
  • When anyone of us meets someone on the physical plane and shakes an otherworldly fashion, our respective Egun shakes hands too! “How do you do? I am XYZ’s great grandfather.” Then they proceed to talk, find out what each family is all about, etc.

So, if your Egun knows your destiny and say you “fall in love” with someone that is not healthy for you, they may give you a headache (I used to get extreme headaches when I spent time with this young lady.) Or maybe they will cause you to have an accident so you will know something is up. If you meet someone that is say, a racist or drug abuser and this person walks with a disturbed Egun or malevolent [spirit against mankind] as their chief influence, best believe your Egun will repel you from them or put obstacles in your way! In fact, when you meet someone and you don’t “click” that it may be safer to say that your respective Egun met, and didn’t dig each other either.

Egun set the most standards for social interaction and ethics

All the time we hear that going against the ethical standards of our fore parents can bring disaster our way. If this is so, then the Egun DO determine the example we should follow. For our own good and in some cases, in the name of family honor, we should be mindful of the relationships we develop..our friends might very well be the enemy of our Egun!

It is for this reason that some of us cannot interact with certain types of people. We have mandates against making friends with people who live certain lifestyles. Now, I know what you are thinking. So let’s go there ..homosexuality for instance. A tired subject perhaps, but maybe we keep having this discussion because we are missing the point. (?) You have got to honor the ethics of your family. Especially if you feel their beliefs are right in your heart. If something is traditionally outside of your culture you probably shouldn’t partake without express permission. So, for some of us, we know that homosexuality is a prohibition in their families. This is not/can not become an excuse to hate other people. But it’s okay to express that certain lifestyles are against what we feel we are brought to Earth to do. And so, we might be asked to limit our contact to people who live outside our code of ethics. On the other hand, the Egun of two very different people might be bring two people together so that their two families can learn from one another or to make a public lesson for others.

In this way, I can only say, don’t assume – ask. And don’t judge the answer that others get. Don’t assume their Egun are terrible people, lenient people, stupid people or any other arrogant self-centered perspective that we normally develop when we can’t get people to walk our path instead of their own.

You listen to your Egun, I’ll listen to mine. (Let them take care of the rest.)

Just remember to obey your Egun. Even if the whole world is staring down at you, calling you a stubborn buffoon for your stance, you have to do it. See, we live in a world where just about anything goes, so it pays to follow YOUR Egun on an issue. Even if it means not doing the easy way. I am not in any way making a comment on lifestyles. Because the other end of it is this: You can not criticize another if you are not sure who is asking them to do or not do something! Some of you have no business in bars or clubs. But for others that is not an issue. Some folks have taboos against certain jobs or living in certain conditions. It doesn’t have to make any sense to us. The only thing that matters is that it fits the ethical standards of the Egun and Orisa that govern you! And we know that Orisa and Egun ask different things of different people. Some people need to open up to Europeans. There is a lesson waiting for them. They can hear the message loud and clear and they ignore it. They don’t want the conflict with family or friends. Others have no business in the company of such people, but they do it anyway because nobody around will check them on it. They know that their family have nationalistic goals and they are not living up to the mission given to their family. These are both realities.

But what do your Egun say?

Most of us will be naturally drawn to people that live like we live and carry our same code of ethics. In another perspective, I would say our Egun get along well.

Some folks can’t stand this! They want everyone on the same page. THEIR page. No way. Besides, we congregate like this because we are learning common lessons and dealing with the same healing issues. You choose a group that help you develop as a spirit. Eventually, humankind will evolve. We will have greater understanding, we will be on a common page. This is so far away. In the meantime, we live not to judge, but to grow. Who better than the eldest among us to lead the way? The Egun!

Please remember that this article is only one perspective. It should not be interpreted as the final word. Please consult your godparent or spiritual teacher to determine how this article should be interpreted within your spiritual lineage and within your spiritual destiny. It is important to know your path.

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5 Comments For This Post

  1. Pauline Says:

    Excellent article! I totally relate – thank you for sharing.

  2. Fajoke Says:

    I’m sorry but this comes up alot and is extremely annoying to me as an advocate and ally. We need to have the conversation of how homosexuality is a lifestyle and heterosexuality is not? It can be assumed that heterosexuality is not being thought of or described as a lifestyle from the numerous conversations,books, and articles I have come across.I feel this should be explained. This is an old post but certainly not a dead topic…And how can you attribute homophobia to your Egun.This sounds much like an excuse for a LEARNED behavior,

    I did very much enjoy this article because I have been having the same issue with my history of science classes …but you lost me

  3. Admin Says:

    I’m sorry. You failed to mentioned what your extensive training in working with Egun was or what traditional methods you’ve been taught (and by whom) to use to determine if a message received by an Egun is legitimate or not. This would help us determine if we are having an intellectual or spiritual conversation about the subject. If the conversation is intellectual in nature, I would have little interest in pursuing it. But I will leave you with these thoughts:

    The goal was to help people realize that the Ancestors active participants in our relationships and we should be mindful of the ethical and spiritual standards they expect us to uphold in choosing mates – and in most cases, just their role of “compatibility checkers”. Like an ancient match(dot)com, if you will. lol Furthermore, it was to encourage all of us to do three things (a) Learn how to communicate with our Ancestors. That is, talk and get an actual message back. (b) Understand that our messages might take us in different directions that other people. (c) That messages that come from true Ancestors don’t contradict the African ethos.

    I added the section about homosexuality a few months after the original article was written because someone asked me to discuss it as a part of the subject. Despite the existence of Odu that specifically discuss and unfavorably categorize homosexuality, I attempted to offer the subject of sexual orientation in as neutral a manner as possible so the article left room for discussion and didn’t become a tirade.

    Which brings me to my last point: If you read those Odu, and they were authenticated via divination, would you accept them or continue to hold your point of view?

  4. Fajoke Says:

    Like I said I really feel this (meaning Homosexuality) should be more of conversation. After reading your article I followed the homosexuality tag to see if I could find more information or articles about it, but I had no such luck. There isn’t anything more on this website that gives a spiritual outlook or some insight on the topic. Thus the comment that was made was from an intellectual stand point. I would have much enjoyed that. The comment also did not belie that I had any extensive or intensive training in the matter; I simply posed a question so the sarcasm really was unnecessary. I had more questions that I thought might be able to be sufficiently answered by yourself and others who chose to reply but maybe this can just be one for another day.

    However, I felt the article and even the reply was very well put together, thought provoking, and I enjoyed it nonetheless.

    Thank you

  5. Admin Says:

    I wasn’t being sarcastic. I was suggesting that we (you, I and others) who are western or influenced by western culture sometimes forget to examine how much that acculturation impacts our sense of things. If you could verify through divination that the Odu that discourage homosexuality were valid, would you continue to support homosexuality? The average westerner would say “If I had already decided it was okay I would continue to think so.” In which I would respond – what is the point of practicing something African, when we really want to be Western?

    So in relation to your comments I was asking you (or anyone reading) to describe for yourself or me or both – the African principle, teaching or spiritual science that guides your thoughts on the subject. Of course by doing so, I was also suggesting that its worth doing so before you form a definitive opinion. There is certainly a problem with people always judging from a western lens and resisting portions of indigenous teachings not because they are without merit, but because it requires change on their part. Which is a spiritually immature perspective that hurt many people in the process. I know that I am not alone in feeling that I have done this at one time or another.

    My apologies for not responding in a more polite and clear way.

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